Who said that? - GrodsCorp

Who said that?

Posted by Bron on Sunday 13 April 2008, 6:05 pm
Categories: Larfs Tags: BadJoke, schizophrenia

A charity pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, “He’s behind you!”

Share This

70 comments on “Who said that?”

Sunday 13 April 2008, 6:17 pm #Ant Rogenous

Seriously, though — was someone there?
Sunday 13 April 2008, 6:22 pm #Bron

You can finish the joke then, Ant. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate against me.
Sunday 13 April 2008, 8:06 pm #Ray Dixon

Well, you got the tag “bad joke” right Bron. If someone close to you gets schizophrenia I can assure you it’s not funny.
Sunday 13 April 2008, 8:27 pm #Bron

Hmm. I wondered if someone would say something like that, Ray.

I have someone close to me with schizophrenia, and she found the joke very funny. She was the one who emailed me the joke, with a note saying she got it from her support group.

I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
Sunday 13 April 2008, 10:05 pm #Bridgit Gread

Ray must be the kind of guy who goes to dinner parties, waits until everyone is cracking gags and being witty, then reports on the genocide of children in the Upper Volta.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:09 am #Chuck A. Spear

Read it here first: Willie Nelson is dead, hit by a car. Updates to follow.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:45 am #THR

RIP Willie.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:50 am #Terry Wright

I liked it Bron…

Why?

Who said that????!!!!
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:36 am #EC

I think Ray probably has good intentions but is missing the point. What many people with a disability find vital in dealing with the daily grind of living with disability is humour.

I’m a person with a disability whose loved ones in addition to being incredibly supportive and loving, sometimes take the piss. I do it too, you have to. Several years ago when I was going through a very rough time and lost 10 kgs really quickly we had lots of giggles planning my forthcoming bestseller “The Nervous Breakdown Diet”.

There’s an old joke among disabled people who interact online -
Q: How many people with *insert disability* does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One and 99,999 to write boring weblogs about how hard it is to change a lightbulb.

This is only my experience and that of others with disability I know. I’m not claiming I speak for everyone.
Monday 14 April 2008, 9:04 am #Ray Dixon

The great majority of those with schizophrenia do not even acknowledge they have it but they certainly have no sense of humor about it and don’t take kindly to light-hearted references to the illness. I just think it’s a subject that most people do not understand well enough to make jokes about it.

I liken full-blown schizophrenia (there are degrees of it) to having a broken spine and being totally incapicitated. Do we make jokes about paraplegics? Well, at least that is a disability we can all understand, whereas a disability of the brain is much more complex and needs to be treated far more cautiously … in my opinion.
Monday 14 April 2008, 9:23 am #Bron

Fair enough, Ray. I more inclined to agree with EC though. Still, interesting to see why you objected to the joke, Ray, so point taken.

Willie Nelson dead? No! He’s practically the only country muso I listen to.
Monday 14 April 2008, 9:30 am #Chuck A. Spear

UPDATE: He was singing “On The Road Again.”
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:13 am #Bron

I haven’t seen any news about it, Chuck. Is this for real?
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:13 am #Magic Bellybutton

A major coping mechanism for someone with a severe health or disabilty is to take the piss. Whether it be doing it yourself or friends and family doing so.

It actually lightens the load a bit. No one wants to be treated with kid gloves when it comes to anything like that. They want to be treated like normal and censoring your sense of humour around them can actually make them feel worse. Take it from someone who knows.
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:13 am #Wah

A
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:14 am #keri

Oh, Bron. Dude.
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:15 am #Wah

Whoops-
Apparently the actor in the panto actually heard the “he’s behind you” call in his head, much to the confusion ofthe audience.
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:31 am #EC

“Well, at least that is a disability we can all understand, whereas a disability of the brain is much more complex and needs to be treated far more cautiously … in my opinion.”

Firstly Ray I would question whether there is generally an understanding of severe physical disability.

Secondly, what you’re referring to when you say “a disability of the brain” is what is often called invisible disability, the person looks physically fine but is still dealing with significant disability.

Who is this great majority you refer to? In my experience types of disability are not uniform experiences, usually there is a spectrum of severity and impact. Two people with MS will usually tell you about two very different lives.

Humour not only plays an important role in easing the daily tensions of living with a disability, it also can importantly provide a way into a discussion of difficult issues for the “able” bodied.

Of course humour can be cruel too, I don’t believe that has been Bron’s intention here.

One of the reasons there is such a divide between the “disabled” and “able” bodied in our culture is the hesitancy the “able” bodied feel about saying *anything* about disability for fear of offending or saying the wrong thing. While the intention is good the result is that dialogue across the divide doesn’t happen.

*gets off soapbox*

ps. LOL Chuck!
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:48 am #Magic Bellybutton

What EC said
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:57 am #Bron

I am going to kill Chuck.
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:58 am #Will

The great majority of those with schizophrenia do not even acknowledge they have it but they certainly have no sense of humor about it and don’t take kindly to light-hearted references to the illness.
Well this is just unsourced speculation. Poor insight is generally a feature of early, untreated schizophrenia.
I have met maybe 100 people with schizophrenia (mostly in treatment environments) and a good third of them have had a laugh at themselves while talking to me.
I respect that you may have strong feelings about SZ from your relationship with those who have it, but I promise you that there are people whose experience of SZ is different to what you have experienced through others. And people who can laugh at themselves can get SZ.

And the joke is funny.
And I agree with what EC said.

And has everyone heard this?

“Thankyou for calling the mental health hotline.

*If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly.

*If you have Dependent Personality Disorder, please ask someone to press 2 for you.

*If you have multiple personalities, press 3, 4, 5 and 6.

*If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what you want.
Stay on the line so we can trace your call.

*If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will be transferred to the mother ship.

*If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a small voice will tell you which number to press.”

etc etc…
Monday 14 April 2008, 11:00 am #Bron

When I posted this joke, I never imagined that it would open up such a good discussion about a topic that is far too often swept under the carpet. If there’s one thing that having a friend with schizophrenia, another with bipolar and a relative with borderline schizophrenia has taught me, it’s that for some inexplicable reason, the subject of mental health and illness is taboo. The other thing I’ve l… more later. Gotta run.
Monday 14 April 2008, 11:06 am #John Surname

This is really poor taste Bron. Disappointing.
Monday 14 April 2008, 11:40 am #Adam

Anyone else have the urge to post more possibly offensive jokes?

What’s funnier than a dead baby? A dead baby in a clown costume!
Monday 14 April 2008, 11:44 am #Ray Dixon

I have met maybe 100 people with schizophrenia (mostly in treatment environments) and a good third of them have had a laugh at themselves while talking to me.

Will, what about the 2/3rds who didn’t laugh? BTW I can assure you my opinion is not “unsourced speculation” but I won’t be quoting my references. Suffice to say if you had a very close relative with full-blown schizophrenia you’d be better qualified to talk about it. Perhaps even better qualified than doctors. Meeting 100 or so in a controlled treatment environment wouldn’t give you a fraction of the understanding of the problems they suffer compared to those who have lived closely with it.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:09 pm #Bron

This is really poor taste Bron. Disappointing.

What is? The joke? Or my having to rush off suddenly in the middle of my last comment because of an unexpected emergency?

Either way, coming from you, Surname, of all people, is somewhat surprising.

What I was going to say was before I had to post quickly was that the other thing I’ve learnt is that humour is the best way of opening up a discussion on mental health. If people are offended by that humour, then I don’t know what else to say.

Also, it wasn’t actually the point of this post to start all this, although in hindsight it’s probably not such a bad thing. The initial post was for a laugh at the absurdity of the joke — the person who sent it to me, as mentioned, is schizophrenic and got it from her support group. Apparently they all thought it was funny and so did I, because it was just silly. Simple as that. There was nothing malicious or even offensive about it. If people want to see it as offensive, then…well, like I said, I don’t know what to say about that.

Each to their own, I guess.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:26 pm #Will

Ray, your argument is unfair. It is unfair because you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is less informed than you are. There are other people with as much experience of SZ as you who hold different opinions to you. I am not doubting you have had first-hand knowledge; I am asking you not to discount the first-hand knowledge of others with blanket statements like ‘they certainly have no sense of humour about it’.
Don’t be too sure that no-one else here contributing has a relative with frank scizophrenia or other psychotic disorders.

And not quoting your references is the definition of unsourced.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:37 pm #Ray Dixon

Well OK Will, I won’t say anything else except to add that I think most people do not understand that schizophrenia is a broad ‘umbrella’ term used to describe a range of mental illnesses and the scale is very broad indeed.

I don’t doubt that some people with what is termed schizophrenia are able to cope much better and laugh at themselves. All I’m saying is those who are “really schizophrenic” (for want of a better description) definitely do not see the funny side - about anything in life quite frankly. Basically, they’re fucked individuals.

If you think that’s “unfair” of me to hold that view, I don’t give a stuff because to expect me to quote my source of reference shows you didn’t read what I said very closely.
Monday 14 April 2008, 12:54 pm #keri

Ray, I do understand where that viewpoint comes from. I have relatives with severe intellectual disabilities, and if someone makes a joke about the particular type of disability they have, I generally don’t find it funny.

But I don’t get offended because I understand that the person telling the joke does not have the intent to offend. Surely that’s the important part?

Then again, if someone uses it as an insult or tries to insult me or my family because of it, then I DO get offended.

While I don’t think it’s helpful to be offended by things that have no intent to be, and Bron clearly wasn’t trying to be, I can understand that when it’s personal to you it’s easier to take it personally or be offended.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:10 pm #EC

“All I’m saying is those who are “really schizophrenic” (for want of a better description) definitely do not see the funny side - about anything in life quite frankly. Basically, they’re fucked individuals.”

Basically fucked individuals? Now who is being offensive? Biological determinism much?

Ray, nobody here is claiming that every person with a disability sits around constantly laughing like a drain at their situation. Obviously this issue is a painful one for you, however your pain does not negate the experiences of others, which are of course different to yours.

Bron, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the joke prompted this thread, at least people are talking.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:24 pm #albi

Very average stuff, Bron.

Those with paranoid schizophrenia (there is more than one type of schizophrenia) are about 20 times more likely to take their own lives due to the fear the illness elicits becoming literally unbearable. The latest research suggests that in the 10 years following a diagnosis of SZ, 10% will be dead, usually after completing suicide.

I don’t think making light of the horrendous symptoms of this cruel disease could in anyway be construed as funny.

Moving on, don’t take this as a personal attack, as I’m a fan of you Bron, as well as the Grods site generally.

Moving on, don’t take this as a personal attack, as I’m a fan of you Bron, as well as the Grods site generally.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:24 pm #The Editor

I’ve been silent so far but I’ll jump in now. I’ll admit that the joke initially made me feel quite uncomfortable but I’m with EC in that I think this discussion is actually turning out to be robust and useful.

Mental illness is a topic that I feel terribly unqualified to speak about and I defer instantly to anyone who’s had either direct or indirect experience. I’ve found that both “sides” of this debate so far have made very valid and interesting points but for me the overwhelming message is that you can’t bundle all mentally ill people together just like you can’t bundle any diverse cohort of people together. 100 people suffering the same illness will likely react to the same joke in 100 shades of grey.

I’m confident that Bron meant no offense by publishing the joke, and the fact that it was sent to her by somebody suffering from the illness being portrayed means that at least one paranoid schizophrenic doesn’t find it offensive. But at the same time I can completely understand how some people (sufferers and non-sufferers) find it terribly offensive.

I’d encourage everyone to keep discussing the issues raised by this joke but as opposed to standard intertubes “debate” let’s all of us keep an open mind, listen to others’ points of view, and be respectful of each other.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:28 pm #albi

Moving on, don’t take this as a personal attack, as I’m a fan of you Bron, as well as the Grods site generally.

Just once more for good luck :-)
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:35 pm #Magic Bellybutton

A dead baby in a clown costume!

Clowns are just creepy and wrong.

***

Ultimately, it comes down to what experiences people have - either when suffering from a mental illness themselves (*raise hand*) or watching people close to them live through the incredibly painful experience any disability - physical or mental - imposes on the sufferer (*raise hand again*). While some may find having a laugh about it is insensitive and cruel, others find that it would be insensitive and cruel to NOT be able to laugh at it.

Being able to laugh at yourself is not indicative of not being able to take yourself seriously, nor is other people having a laugh along with you. It DOES allow for people to have a more open discussion about these issues because so many people are afraid to offend, when all they have is mere curiosity of the illness and how people cope but they are unsure of how to approach it.

Don’t jump to conclusions based on your experiences with disabilities. I certainly wouldn’t have a laugh about the situation if I didn’t a) know how they feel about such behaviour; b) the laugh was intentionally cruel; or c) I couldn’t laugh at myself.
Monday 14 April 2008, 1:59 pm #Bron

Thanks albi x 3!

This has been a most interesting discussion. As you all have noted, it was not my intention to be cruel or offensive etc, but I do apologise to those who have been offended/upset by it. I will certainly think twice in future.

As I keep saying, the person who sent it to me has a great sense of humour, and the “only” two other people with mental illness that I know have always been able to laugh at themselves or use humour to lessen the pain a bit.

In hindsight, I realise that I must have assumed that all people with mental illness (or close to those with it) must share the same sense of humour or at least attempt to.

I don’t profess to know everything about mental illness, only what I’ve experienced as a supporter on the margins of those I know.

So, those who are deeply troubled and offended, please accept my sincere apologies. It was not intentional, as you know.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:02 pm #Ant Rogenous

I’m fine with the joke. I’m not so comfortable about people with schizophrenia being labelled “schizophrenics”, though.

Categorising someone by their illness is absurd and unhelpful. For example, someone who suffers from shingles isn’t known as a “shinglic” — and nor should they be.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:06 pm #The Editor

You’re a hypocrite of the highest order, Ant! You don’t seem to have any trouble calling me a wanker. Why should I be categorised because of my hobby and personality?
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:12 pm #Bron

Clowns are just creepy and wrong.

Bloody oath. Coulrophobia is a nuisance when at the circus!

I hated that horror clown movie, “It”, even though I love watching horror movies (and is usually the first section I turn to when in the video shop). But I guess that’s the aim of a horror movie, somehow.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:15 pm #Ant Rogenous

You’re a hypocrite of the highest order, Ant!

Blow it out your arse, four-eyes.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:19 pm #Ant Rogenous

By the way, I’m running a book on how long it takes this post to end up on Scrote;watch. Any gamblers here fancy putting some coin where their gob is?
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:24 pm #Bron

I’ll gamble. $2 coin hovering near my mouth, but what about the germs?
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:24 pm #The Editor

The author of Scrote;watch is waiting for his 386 machine running Windows ‘95 to boot up (he turned it on at 11am) and then he’s going to type the post (two hours), spellcheck it (one hour), and wait for his dialup connection to send it to wordpress.com (4 hours). We should see it online about midnight tonight.

(Of course, the spellcheck will only pick up 30% of the errors.)
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:30 pm #keri

I would have thought he’d be running a Sinclair put together from bits of corrugated iron and a dash of Noddy ingenuity, Ed.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:32 pm #Bron

Are you sure he even uses spellcheck?
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:37 pm #Chuck A. Spear

I bet my signed copy of Dianetics.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:38 pm #Ray Dixon

Bron, you haven’t offended me because I realise you didn’t really understand the distinctions when you put up a joke about “paranoid schizophrenics” and then said you have a friend who has “schizophrenia”.

As Albi indicates, “paranoid schizophrenics” (sorry to call them that Ant but that’s what they are - permanently, just like paraplegics) are at the very extreme edge of mental illness and (with apologies to EC) those with very severe symptoms are indeed “fucked individuals” and making fun of them is just ill-informed.

No harm done and I concur with “albi” again on your posts and on grods in general.
Monday 14 April 2008, 2:47 pm #keri

Chuck, I’d be highly impressed if that was signed by Xenu himself/itself.
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:14 pm #Terry Wright

Ed. You forgot to mention the 2 hours of going through the thesaurus.
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:21 pm #Bron

That’s because The Ed is “running interference” on the blogs. Or something.
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:25 pm #The Editor

Is that a football position?
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:33 pm #Bron

I can’t be too sure, but it might be an inconvenient bowel incontinence problem.
Monday 14 April 2008, 4:55 pm #Terry Wright

Thankyou for calling the mental health hotline.

*If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly.

*If you have Dependent Personality Disorder, please ask someone to press 2 for you.

etc. etc.

I’m still laughing at this. [sorry but I think it's funny]. Also credit to Bron for the original joke. That was giggle worthy too.

There needs to be perspective on these types of jokes. ‘Political correctness’ is there for a good reason but it can also be taken too far. A lot of jokes are based on traits, heritage, employment and anything else personal that can get a laugh. In a grown up society there should be some room to laugh at yourself. It’s when the jokes are aimed at someone to hurt them that it stops being funny. The exception is when they’re aimed at an obvious dirtbag who deserves it. [ or ;;;; - they are way too funny].
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:00 pm #Bridgit Gread

Damn, I’m too late to contribute to this thread!
(I’ve got a 386 too…)
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:01 pm #Bron

Never too late, Bridgit. Go for it.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:06 pm #Bridgit Gread

OK. Should I tell you the one about the old guy with Alzheimer’s…?
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:07 pm #The Editor

Your comments are now on permanent moderation, Bridgit.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:15 pm #Bridgit Gread

My grandfather has permanent moderation and your joke is offensive. Bastard.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:19 pm #keri

My grandfather is permanently offensive and I find it a joke*. Where does that leave me?

*He’s not really. He’s a lovely man.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:31 pm #Terry Wright

Now everyone’s getting stuck into their grandfathers.

Is there no shame on this blog?
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:32 pm #The Editor

Yellow card, Terry. First strike. Permanent moderation.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:34 pm #keri

Terry, my grandfather would laugh, kick me in the shins and then bite me.

And this time I’m not joking. That’s one old man who fights dirty.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:35 pm #Ant Rogenous

Bridgit teased us with the prospect of a joke and didn’t deliver, so I’ve decided to post my own. Enjoy:

A 65-year-old man visits his GP for the results of a few tests he’s recently undergone. The news isn’t good, and the doctor cuts to the chase.

“I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but your tests revealed two significant problems. Firstly, you have cancer.”

The man is distraught. “Jesus fucking Christ!” he screams. “I knew it, I just knew it — all these years exercising, not smoking, eating the right things, looking after myself, for what!? Cancer! Oh sweet Jesus, who’ll look after my family? Fucking cancer!”

Suddenly he remembers something. “Doc,” he says, “you said my tests uncovered two health problems — what’s the other one?”

The doctor replies: “I’m afraid you also have Alzheimer’s.”

“Well,” says the man, “it could be worse — at least I don’t have fucking cancer.”
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:39 pm #Bridgit Gread

I thought that was going to be the one where the woman has either AIDS or Alzheimers and the doc says “If your wife comes home, don’t screw her”.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:41 pm #Terry Wright

Keri: my grandfather would laugh, kick me in the shins and then bite me.

And that’s if you were good!
- -

Ed: Yellow card, Terry. First strike

That’s 2 first strikes now that Grods have given me. Maybe this explains the recent GroupThinkFC soccer scores.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:43 pm #Ant Rogenous

Terry’s just begging for a red, isn’t he?
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:43 pm #The Editor

That’s below the belt, dude. Too far. You can take the piss out of me but never take the piss out of GroupthinkFC.

First strike.
Monday 14 April 2008, 5:48 pm #Terry Wright

Very good, Ant. Mrs Wright liked it.

ED: First Strike

LOL… very quick Ed.

But that’s now 3 first strikes. Can I have the red card instead, I have plenty of yellow ones.
Monday 14 April 2008, 7:03 pm #Bron

Alright, if we’re gonna make fun of the elderly, here’s mine:

Q. What do you call a happy old lady?

A. A Glad Bag.

(Please don’t hate me, I didn’t make it up)
Monday 14 April 2008, 8:09 pm #NotMyUsualName

Ray Dixon wrote, “As Albi indicates, “paranoid schizophrenics” (sorry to call them that Ant but that’s what they are - permanently, just like paraplegics) are at the very extreme edge of mental illness and (with apologies to EC) those with very severe symptoms are indeed “fucked individuals” and making fun of them is just ill-informed.”

Ray, I’m as close as you can get to a person who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, and having been that close, the label of paranoia is definite. It was the worst experience of this person’s life, and mine too. It’s very serious, and, as you note, probably permanent. But as for “fucked individuals”? This is just wrong. I’m careful not to generalise from my experience to everyone else’s. Are you? I think I can see where you’re coming from in your posts, but I also think you’re coming across to me as someone determined to take offence to something that’s hitting a little close to home. It did for me too, but, in the end, that’s my problem.
Monday 14 April 2008, 10:34 pm #Ray Dixon

No, I’m not generalising NMUN, I’m just saying that there are those with the extreme form of schizophrenia … and their lives are stuffed. Maybe “fucked individuals” was the wrong way to describe them but it makes the point. I haven’t taken offence though, my point is that insensitive jokes about people in that category are ill-informed, and that’s what I said.

Write a comment

GrodsThink

Episode archive

Subscribe:

icon for podpress

GrodsThink Ep.31 (16/9/08)
Play in Popup | Download

Categories

Archives

Blogroll

Worth reading