47 Comments

1.   Ray Dixon (Friday 25 April 2008, 2:53 pm) # 

   I agree Bridgit, the hype surrounding the AFL Anzac Day match is overdone. Sure, have a minute’s silence before the game and acknowledge the meaning of the day, but that’s it. The Essendon - Collinwood clash (which for some reason is regarded as synonomous with war) is a huge money spinner for the two clubs and the AFL, so what they’re really doing is commercialising and cashing in on Anzac Day.

   I wonder what the AFL will do if they ever decide to play games on Good Friday, as they should. What, will they dedicate the game to Jesus and build myths associating Christianity with footy? Probably. And which teams would play? Obviously it’d have to be St Kilda & Melbourne (Saints v The Demons!)

   
   
2.   krypto (Friday 25 April 2008, 3:33 pm) # 

   the whole thing’s a monument to hypocricy isn’t it?
   I thoroughly despise the way this whole ANZAC bs blurs not only the distinction between sport and war, but also between war and God.
   I mean there is all this palarva about building monuments that resemble cathedrals, they wheel out some prayers and pretend that war is somehow sacred.
   I think Jesus would be nothing short of disgusted.It is the EXACT opposite of the message he tried to convey.

   ANZAC day is all about conservative politicians using a cynical and manipulative grab for popular appeal.
   They use the war dead in death as much (if not more) than they were used in life. Naive young people killed and mangled to grease the wheels of the rich man’s industry with their blood.
   I see NOTHING worth celebrating.
   Fuck ANZAC day, it’s un-Australian.

   
   
3.   Bridgit Gread (Friday 25 April 2008, 3:49 pm) # 

   I’m happy to remember the war dead - but ANZAC Day has become quasi-religious and intensely nationalistic. Remembrance Day is much more solemn and sincere. Nowadays ANZAC Day is less about remembering and more about football, patriotic yahooing and backpacking to Turkey (where you can camp overnight and leave your kebab-wrappers and Coke cans on the beach at Suvla Bay).

   
   
4.   krypto (Friday 25 April 2008, 4:01 pm) # 

   so what does capitalistic consumerism, religious fundamentalism, warmongering and nationalism all have in common? They are all among the most dearly cherished, long held right-wing values.

   I have no problem with service people commemorating their fallen mates but am deeply cynical about the motivations of our political leaders and their hang-on spin doctors. Both then and now.

   
   
5.   Bron (Friday 25 April 2008, 5:31 pm) # 

   Great post, Bridgit. Have nothing further to add — in complete agreement (groupthinking). Agree with all the comments too, so far. (More groupthinking)

   
   
6.   Steve D (Friday 25 April 2008, 6:02 pm) # 

   Agree with most of the points, I especially hate the bums that trip over to Gallipoli and mess up the whole place.

   Just thought I’d add that a lot of sports derive from some aspect of the military, either physical fitness, mental fitness or strategic/team planning (particularly Olympic sports). Modern sports tend to derive from other sports and are barely recognisable in terms of military origins, but there is definitely a historical link.

   Of course that doesn’t justify presenting the two as equivalent in any way.

   
   
7.   Suburban Marxist (Friday 25 April 2008, 6:23 pm) # 

   “They died to keep Turkey British.”

   
   
8.   Ant Rogenous (Friday 25 April 2008, 6:45 pm) # 

   Well said, Bridgit.

   
   
9.   brokenleftleg (Friday 25 April 2008, 6:52 pm) # 

   Are you trying to get Timmeh to call you “unOrstrayan”?

   
   
10.   Ray Dixon (Friday 25 April 2008, 7:16 pm) # 

    a lot of sports derive from some aspect of the military

    Like polo? Where the Afghans used a severed head of one of their enemy instead of a ball. No wonder it’s the “rich man’s sport”.

    Aussie Rules, from what is known, derived from aborigines in Tasmania who used a ball made out of possum skins. The winning team got the women.

    
    
11.   Bron (Friday 25 April 2008, 7:33 pm) # 

    The winning team got the women.

    They still do. The women are known as Footy Wives and Girlfriends (and sometimes Groupies).

    
    
12.   Chuck A. Spear (Friday 25 April 2008, 7:50 pm) # 

    Aussie Rules, from what is known, derived from aborigines in Tasmania who used a ball made out of possum skins

    Don’t tell Bolta that. He’ll flip his wig.

    Unfortunately, this is the direction ANZAC day and AFL are both going. I couldn’t give a fuck about AFL. I don’t follow it, I don’t watch it. It’s overrated garbage, played by over-paid, over-indulged fuckwits.

    ANZAC day however, does have a good message contained within it. It can be interpreted differently by different people. The message it sends is still there, but the more commercialised and cross-marketed it becomes, the further away it will be from, Lest We Forget

    Unlike Dr Tingtong who claims to have served part of his enlistmentment as a full-time soldier, I did serve in the regular Army and did regular Army things and was deployed to regular Army deployments. And unlike Dr Tingtong, I don’t attempt to allude that I was involved with WW2:

    In WWII, the Japanese were stopped in their advance through New Guinea towards Australia by the CMF — the “weekend warriors” of whom I was myself once a part.

    There is a name for Dr Tingtongs: Bullshitartists. DR tingtong, you would get bashed at an RSL if you tried to pull that bullshit. I bet $1000 that you have only been on one ‘bivowack’ at Pucka, couldn’t handle it, and ran home.

    Anyhow, I was heavily involved with ANZAC days, and to me it should be a solemn day, not with John fucken Farnham signing at the cove and not with the AFL trying to grope it.

    Buy a fucken poppy instead.

    As you were.

    
    
13.   Steve D (Friday 25 April 2008, 8:20 pm) # 

    “Aussie Rules, from what is known, derived from aborigines in Tasmania”

    “Derived” is a bit strong here I feel. “Influenced” probably more accurately reflects this situation. (Incidentally, I think Bolt was told a while back and ‘debunked’ it by posting a link to an alternative theory.)

    Polo quite likely had a military basis in horse-riding abilities. “Sport of Kings” may reflect the fact that the king (and other high ranks) rode into battle (I’m speculating here). The more common examples are javelin, pole-vault, skeet shooting and even running and swimming (keeping in mind that some of these ’sports’ have been around a very long time). Even chess has a very strong basis in military strategy.

    I’m quite happy with all the ANZAC days as I’ve experienced (they’ve all been in Melbourne). The dawn service and march are very respectful (with the exception of stupid TV stations turning it into news) and the footy is as much about a party as going back to the pub after the march is to some people.

    Chuck - I agree. That guy was a wanker. Can we take him to an RSL? Just to see some real soldiers have a ‘chat’ to him? Maybe one where the bikie groups hang out…

    
    
14.   Bridgit Gread (Friday 25 April 2008, 8:44 pm) # 

    ANZAC Days back in the 1980s and early 1990s were great: it was a quiet, thoughtful and humbling day, and the media used to cover it in a reserved manner. The returned soldiers, the vets and marchers were the true focus of the day. Now it’s over the top, gaudy and grandiose. Tabloid journalists think they’re Les Carlyon for a day and write colour pieces full of ridiculous platitudes. Even Anna Coren on Today Tonight tonight thought she was CEW Bean.

    It’s become more widely known but cheaper for it - and I think the AFL is to blame for this to a large extent.

    
    
15.   Bridgit Gread (Friday 25 April 2008, 8:48 pm) # 

    There is a name for Dr Tingtongs: Bullshitartists. DR tingtong, you would get bashed at an RSL if you tried to pull that bullshit. I bet $1000 that you have only been on one ‘bivowack’ at Pucka, couldn’t handle it, and ran home.

    Not sure how far Doc Tingtong has gone with the tales of his alleged military exploits but this site might be interested in him - they track down chronic RSL-bar bullshitters, expose their phoney war service (or lack thereof) and engage in a little public identification humiliation, in the manner of ;;;; but with better spelling and research.

    
    
16.   Chuck A. Spear (Friday 25 April 2008, 9:34 pm) # 

    Often called by the derogatory term “wannabe” these are men and women who may or may not have served in the armed forces, but who fraudulently misrepresent themselves as having served; often in a theatre of war by their words and actions, and by wearing of medals and other accoutrements to military service to which they have no entitlement.

    Yep, sounds like Dr Tingtong. He can be reported here:

    enquiries@anzmi.net

    This is an interesting phenomenon. When I was in the Army (I don’t mean to sound like a know-it-all tosser here, it is in no way my claim to fame) there were a few guys who used to tell civilians that they had seen action.

    There was one guy, Colin Bets, who was firing a standard issue Austyer F88 on the range and a spent shell hit the ground, bounced up and went down the back of his shirt, scalding his back. It left a small scar. Whatever.

    When he got really pissed he would rip of his shirt in whatever pub we where in and demand respect because he was shot in the back in Timor and had the scar to prove it. Yes, Colin was a bullshit artist. I bashed him once. He went AWOL after that with a prostitute from Darwin. He was caught in Perth selling stolen mobile phones.

    Just another one of my ANZAC day waries. I could tell you about the time I had a room inspection and failed. Oh geez, those were the dayz. Snorezzzzzz

    Check, halt. About turn. Hurry up and wait.

    
    
17.   albi (Friday 25 April 2008, 9:54 pm) # 

    Under Howard, ANZAC day was hijacked as a means to further his own cultural ambitions. Who could forget Nelson’s excitement at the thought of mounting (or being mounted by) Simpson’s donkey.

    It became a means to promote a nationalistic and narrow view of Australia - a simple notion that those small of brain could easily fall into line behind.

    It’s also an interesting point you make about the sports/ANZAC comparison, and got me thinking. Isn’t it funny that terms used in sport are very warlike - things like ‘we slaughtered them’ ‘it was a tough battle out there’ ‘we were killed’ ‘we showed them no mercy’…etc. Very tribal.

    
    
18.   Chuck A. Spear (Friday 25 April 2008, 9:59 pm) # 

    Speaking of cunts, here is the photo I sent Ed a few ANZAC days ago.

    http://www.grods.com/post/1727/

    
    
19.   brokenleftleg (Friday 25 April 2008, 10:02 pm) # 

    Bridgit,
    So i guess you don’t approve of the Army using the AFL for it’s recruitment drive.
    Have you seen the “ride a 65 ton usless abrahms tank” promotion?

    
    
20.   Austin (Saturday 26 April 2008, 10:13 am) # 

    I had someone say to me the other day that they were “celebrating ANZAC day”. I find that a little disgusting myself. But it seems to be part of the popular thinking.

    
    
21.   Wah (Saturday 26 April 2008, 12:25 pm) # 

    Geelong and Freemantle played an Anzac Day match in Perth - of course you didn;t hear about that. This is as much about marketing Collingwood and Essendon as it is about supposedly paying repsect to the Anzacs - how they can compare the Anzac spirt to a bit of hard tackling is a bit rude me thinks.

    
    
22.   John Surname (Saturday 26 April 2008, 1:05 pm) # 

    I like that Keith Miller said - that cricket isn’t pressure. Having a messchersmit(?) up your arse is pressure.

    How true.

    Chuck, have you reported Tingtong?

    
    
23.   Bridgit Gread (Saturday 26 April 2008, 1:23 pm) # 

    “Having a Messerschmidt up your arse is pressure. Cricket is not” said Keith (I done Googled it). Very apt.

    Doctor Tingtong might’ve seen combat when the Dubbo chapter of the neo-Nazis took on the local ‘boongs’ with bits of four-by-two, back in the heady 1960s. They probably even awarded themselves Purple Hearts.

    
    
24.   Chuck A. Spear (Saturday 26 April 2008, 1:42 pm) # 

    I wouldn’t waste my time reporting the Aryan wannabe. He’s a fucking joke who should be laughed at instead.

    I wonder if he wrote a poem about his time fighting aborginals? Is he the modern day Wilfred Owen?

    Boongs! Boongs! Quick boys, an ecstasy of fumbling

    
    
25.   Che (Saturday 26 April 2008, 2:01 pm) # 

    Bridget, I’d have to disagree with your assessment.

    It is a little far reaching to blame ANZAC days current festive setting on John Howard or the AFL, as it is more of a cultural shift, or progression as you will.

    This has been happening since Mr. Lockett the last Gallipoli soldier passed away a few years ago. Now that all people involved in the catalyst for this day have now left us, it is natural for us as a society to evolve the day into a celebration of where we have come from as a country.

    
    
26.   Bridgit Gread (Saturday 26 April 2008, 2:41 pm) # 

    LOL Chuck

    And Che, no offence but I don’t agree that it’s been the demise of WW1 veterans that’s changed the culture of ANZAC Day - it’s a myriad of factors including:

    - Howard’s grandstanding, his adoption of Americanistic flag-waving and worship of the cult of the military, a la our friends MK and KG
    - the media’s use of ANZAC Day as some kind of creative writing competition to see who can write the best schmaltzy bit of nationalism and/or war porn
    - the virtual purchase from the RSL of playing rights by the AFL, Collingwood and Essendon (”please let us play, diggers, and we’ll blow the Last Post and say Lest We Forget“)
    - the cult of Gallipoli visits by backpackers, aided by the government’s sponsorship of structural ‘improvements’ there

    
    
27.   Chuck A. Spear (Saturday 26 April 2008, 3:51 pm) # 

    Look Che, as Bridgit discussed in her post and regardless of which direction you think ANZAC day is going, the AFL can’t compare it’s players to soldiers. It’s bullshit. It’s emotion not supported by fact; it’s disgraceful.

    Arial ping ping vs seeing your mate’s head turn into pink mist as you scramble through barbed-wire entanglements. I can see how they are similar?

    
    
28.   Chuck A. Spear (Saturday 26 April 2008, 3:57 pm) # 

    “…ping-pong.” Too much Dr Tongting.

    
    
29.   Almost Always Wrong (Sunday 27 April 2008, 4:45 pm) # 

    I dont think the footballers who served in theatres of battle over the years would have appreciated or wanted anzac day a football free day. cant please everyone i suppose.

    
    
30.   krypto (Sunday 27 April 2008, 5:21 pm) # 

    You know since the last ANZACs have passed away, it’s like there’s no-one to tell the media and other arse-pipes like the plethora of conservative pollies, media wankers and shit-headed wanna-bes who want to use ANZAC day as a propaganda vehicle, to pull their freakin’ heads in.
    What really aught tho be a solemn time of rememberence and reflection on the futility and wastefulness of war and the need for politicians to lead the way of tolerance has turned into a disgusting free-for-all with everyone from local MP’s to the freakin’ weather man all trying to out hand-on-heart one another.

    It makes me sick to my stomach and I hopethey all choke from the stench of their own BS.

    
    
31.   Bridgit Gread (Sunday 27 April 2008, 5:34 pm) # 

    I dont think the footballers who served in theatres of battle over the years would have appreciated or wanted anzac day a football free day.

    And I think you’re wrong. The sportsmen who also served in war seem to have a handle on which was more dangerous and significant (see Keith Miller’s quote above). Given the choice between solemn commemoration of our war dead and playing footy, I think they’d plump for the first without the second. ANZAC Day isn’t supposed to be a let’s-have-a-BBQ-and-play-footy public holiday in the same way that Australia Day and the Queen’s Birthday holiday are.

    
    
32.   krypto (Sunday 27 April 2008, 5:56 pm) # 

    maybe they should ditch the ANZAC day holiday and have rememberance day off instead.
    It’s arguably a more significant day and falls outside football season.

    
    
33.   Almost Always Wrong (Monday 28 April 2008, 1:25 am) # 

    thats completely and totally idiotic but we’re all entitled to our own opinion bridg :) i’d agree with che more than anything, i tend to think australians genuinely want to celebrate the birth of the character of our nation. they didnt just pick the teams out of a hat for the anzac day matches by the way. the anzac spirit permeates throughout australians and new zealanders no matter what they’re doing, when the commentators are saying a player showed great courage going with the flight of the ball, they arent comparing him to a digger who went over the top into storms of metal and death. people generally can tell the difference.

    messerschmits are stressful but miller didnt go on to say “and fuck anyone who does anything to happily celebrate anzac day. solemn commemorations only. by god if any of you play two ups or head down to the races or the paddock you’re evil and will be struck down you money mongering BASTARDS”

    
    
34.   Bridgit Gread (Monday 28 April 2008, 5:56 pm) # 

    The single thing that torpedoes your post is that you used the term “anzac spirit” like you believe it to be a tangible quality.

    You lose.

    
    
35.   krypto (Monday 28 April 2008, 6:18 pm) # 

    ah yes, like Howard’s “mateship” constitutional ammendment.

    
    
36.   Almost Always Wrong (Monday 28 April 2008, 11:34 pm) # 

    why isnt the anzac spirit a tangible thing bridg? in your opinion of course.

    
    
37.   krypto (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 2:49 pm) # 

    be a good sport there AAW, lend me a cup of ANZAC spirit. I wonder what the going rate is, per kilo?

    
    
38.   Almost Always Wrong (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 3:23 pm) # 

    …

    
    
39.   Almost Always Wrong (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 3:37 pm) # 

    i’ll cede that its not a quantifiable or measurable entity but that doesnt make it any less palpable, especially on anzac day.

    
    
40.   Bridgit Gread (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 4:45 pm) # 

    why isnt the anzac spirit a tangible thing bridg? in your opinion of course.

    Because it’s bullshit, AAW. The “ANZAC spirit” is a descriptor that some people tag on others, arbitrarily and without any proof or clear criteria, to make them sound wonderful. You can’t carve it, measure it, test for it or even clearly define it. It’s the same kind of insipid emotional rhetoric as “mateship” or being “un-Australian”.

    
    
41.   Almost Always Wrong (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:13 pm) # 

    yeah thats what i said. wd. gg.

    
    
42.   Bridgit Gread (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:21 pm) # 

    ok. yw.

    
    
43.   Bron (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:23 pm) # 

    wt?

    
    
44.   Bridgit Gread (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:23 pm) # 

    fiik.

    
    
45.   Bron (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:25 pm) # 

    fiik2.

    
    
46.   Almost Always Wrong (Tuesday 29 April 2008, 5:27 pm) # 

    oh, krypto btw we got mates rates :D

    
    
47.   Anthony_ (Friday 2 May 2008, 1:55 pm) # 

    Agree football has nothing to do with Anzac Day.

    However lol, whats with all this hate of Australian Football, you must be a Thugby supporter Chucka ;), surprised I didn’t hear the “GAYFL” from you. :P

    
    

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