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	<title>Comments on: Defining Australian-ness</title>
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	<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/</link>
	<description>Australia&#039;s leading blog that starts with &#039;G&#039; and has nine letters in its name. Join us for a latte as we discuss politics, media, society and the internet.</description>
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		<title>By: Genevieve Robey &#187; Australia Day - things go a bit mental</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33307</link>
		<dc:creator>Genevieve Robey &#187; Australia Day - things go a bit mental</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33307</guid>
		<description>[...] to put into words following seeing the odd Australia Day activities were very well captured in this post. Scott from Grodscorp says: Bumper stickers bearing flags, daring readers to “love it or leave [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to put into words following seeing the odd Australia Day activities were very well captured in this post. Scott from Grodscorp says: Bumper stickers bearing flags, daring readers to “love it or leave [...]</p>
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		<title>By: confessions</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33196</link>
		<dc:creator>confessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33196</guid>
		<description>&quot;If there’s any consistent theme to the list of recipients it’s that captaining the Australian test cricket team is the surest way to win the gong.&quot;

slight correction:  the &lt;i&gt;men&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; test team.  none of the captains of the womens team have won the gong.  otherwise, well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If there’s any consistent theme to the list of recipients it’s that captaining the Australian test cricket team is the surest way to win the gong.&#8221;</p>
<p>slight correction:  the <i>men&#8217;s</i> test team.  none of the captains of the womens team have won the gong.  otherwise, well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Alister</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33195</link>
		<dc:creator>Alister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33195</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;We’re only 200-odd years old — a toddler in the context of other nations — and Australia is still suffering from somewhat of an identity crisis. We’re still trying to sort out our stories, our icons, and our heroes, and we’re far from achieving any sort of consensus view. This is partly because of our demographics and the lack of homogeneity across the population.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In an otherwise interesting post, this stood out.  Firstly, if we were 200 years old, we&#039;re no longer an international toddler.  We would predate Germany, for example.  Wikipedia notes, &quot;As a modern nation-state, the country was first unified amidst the Franco-Prussian War in 1871.&quot;  You could, of course, argue that people lived there for a while and so there&#039;s a national identity, but you&#039;re on shaky ground.  Prussian/German identity has changed quite a bit in the last century, after all.

However, to say that Australia is 200 or so years old is a mistake.  More accurately, Australia is 108 years old.  Federation should be the starting point here - NSW is 200+ years old as a colony (somewhat less so as a &lt;i&gt;self-governing&lt;/i&gt; colony), but NSW != Australia.  And at 108 years old, we&#039;re older than the Italian Republic.  And notions of &quot;unItalian&quot; would be considered idiotic by Italians, I think.

In short, it&#039;s time we outgrew three things - firstly, that we&#039;re a young country, secondly that there&#039;s a universally definable notion of what is Australian (and, by implication, unAustralian), and thirdly, that the date of Australia&#039;s creation is in 1778 with the arrival of the First Fleet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We’re only 200-odd years old — a toddler in the context of other nations — and Australia is still suffering from somewhat of an identity crisis. We’re still trying to sort out our stories, our icons, and our heroes, and we’re far from achieving any sort of consensus view. This is partly because of our demographics and the lack of homogeneity across the population.</p></blockquote>
<p>In an otherwise interesting post, this stood out.  Firstly, if we were 200 years old, we&#8217;re no longer an international toddler.  We would predate Germany, for example.  Wikipedia notes, &#8220;As a modern nation-state, the country was first unified amidst the Franco-Prussian War in 1871.&#8221;  You could, of course, argue that people lived there for a while and so there&#8217;s a national identity, but you&#8217;re on shaky ground.  Prussian/German identity has changed quite a bit in the last century, after all.</p>
<p>However, to say that Australia is 200 or so years old is a mistake.  More accurately, Australia is 108 years old.  Federation should be the starting point here &#8211; NSW is 200+ years old as a colony (somewhat less so as a <i>self-governing</i> colony), but NSW != Australia.  And at 108 years old, we&#8217;re older than the Italian Republic.  And notions of &#8220;unItalian&#8221; would be considered idiotic by Italians, I think.</p>
<p>In short, it&#8217;s time we outgrew three things &#8211; firstly, that we&#8217;re a young country, secondly that there&#8217;s a universally definable notion of what is Australian (and, by implication, unAustralian), and thirdly, that the date of Australia&#8217;s creation is in 1778 with the arrival of the First Fleet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33191</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33191</guid>
		<description>Being patriotic about being Australian is un-Australian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being patriotic about being Australian is un-Australian.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33186</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33186</guid>
		<description>The sooner the tennis fucks off the sooner we have to keep reading and hearing about poor little rich kids and their domestic problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sooner the tennis fucks off the sooner we have to keep reading and hearing about poor little rich kids and their domestic problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Bridgit Gread</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33183</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridgit Gread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33183</guid>
		<description>Ray, Jelena Dokic is showing &#039;Aussie spirit&#039; (read Wah&#039;s very good post on the subject). She only started winning again because of this Aussie spirit. When she went back to Serbia, she was shite. Only Aussies can winnnn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray, Jelena Dokic is showing &#8216;Aussie spirit&#8217; (read Wah&#8217;s very good post on the subject). She only started winning again because of this Aussie spirit. When she went back to Serbia, she was shite. Only Aussies can winnnn.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Dixon (Bright)</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Dixon (Bright)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33173</guid>
		<description>Great post, Scott. Maybe the whole concept of naming one person as &#039;Australian of the year&#039; is unAustralian in itself. All it seems to do is promote divisiveness. 

As for giving the award and/or honours to sports people, that&#039;s just ridiculous. They already have their own award systems, I mean, aren&#039;t 3 gold medals enough recognition for Stephanie Rice?

Although &#039;our Jelena&#039; (Dokic) is currently putting in a pretty good bid to disprove that theory. She deserves something for just making her comeback against the odds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Scott. Maybe the whole concept of naming one person as &#8216;Australian of the year&#8217; is unAustralian in itself. All it seems to do is promote divisiveness. </p>
<p>As for giving the award and/or honours to sports people, that&#8217;s just ridiculous. They already have their own award systems, I mean, aren&#8217;t 3 gold medals enough recognition for Stephanie Rice?</p>
<p>Although &#8216;our Jelena&#8217; (Dokic) is currently putting in a pretty good bid to disprove that theory. She deserves something for just making her comeback against the odds.</p>
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		<title>By: Toaf</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33162</link>
		<dc:creator>Toaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33162</guid>
		<description>Frigging vegemite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frigging vegemite.</p>
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		<title>By: Ant Rogenous</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33161</link>
		<dc:creator>Ant Rogenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33161</guid>
		<description>Vegemite fingered! Is that what you kids are calling prostate examinations these days?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vegemite fingered! Is that what you kids are calling prostate examinations these days?</p>
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		<title>By: Bridgit Gread</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33159</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridgit Gread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33159</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s about the value of the award, not the value of its recipient. The whole point of an award - any award - is to reward and acknowledge exceptional achievement or ability. If there are ten others who have done the same or better then the award is consequently devalued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s about the value of the award, not the value of its recipient. The whole point of an award &#8211; any award &#8211; is to reward and acknowledge exceptional achievement or ability. If there are ten others who have done the same or better then the award is consequently devalued.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33157</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33157</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Scott.

Bridgit, I&#039;m not sure if you can judge the worthiness of the award based on others who were as worthy not receiving them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Scott.</p>
<p>Bridgit, I&#8217;m not sure if you can judge the worthiness of the award based on others who were as worthy not receiving them.</p>
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		<title>By: John Surname</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33155</link>
		<dc:creator>John Surname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33155</guid>
		<description>Good post.

As I commented to Scott yesterday, I&#039;ve been overlooked for an OA for &quot;services to Warministas&quot; &lt;i&gt;again&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post.</p>
<p>As I commented to Scott yesterday, I&#8217;ve been overlooked for an OA for &#8220;services to Warministas&#8221; <i>again</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Bridgit Gread</title>
		<link>http://www.grods.com/post/5079/comment-page-1/#comment-33144</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridgit Gread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grods.com/?p=5079#comment-33144</guid>
		<description>Though I intend no disrespect to the people who win them, most of those awards - and I include the various likes like AMs and OAMs in this - are arbitrarily chosen, political bullshit. The &#039;Australian of the Year&#039; is just an opportunity to publicise causes, reward favourites and indulge lobby groups. The &#039;Father of the Year&#039; is usually just a fecund celebrity with photogenic kids.

Another one that irks me - and this will be controversial - is the Victoria Cross awarded to Mark Donaldson. Without doubting the courage of what Donaldson did, can it be uniequovicably stated that it is &lt;i&gt;the most courageous act&lt;/i&gt; performed by an Australian soldier since the Vietnam War? How many similar acts go unseen or unreported, I wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I intend no disrespect to the people who win them, most of those awards &#8211; and I include the various likes like AMs and OAMs in this &#8211; are arbitrarily chosen, political bullshit. The &#8216;Australian of the Year&#8217; is just an opportunity to publicise causes, reward favourites and indulge lobby groups. The &#8216;Father of the Year&#8217; is usually just a fecund celebrity with photogenic kids.</p>
<p>Another one that irks me &#8211; and this will be controversial &#8211; is the Victoria Cross awarded to Mark Donaldson. Without doubting the courage of what Donaldson did, can it be uniequovicably stated that it is <i>the most courageous act</i> performed by an Australian soldier since the Vietnam War? How many similar acts go unseen or unreported, I wonder.</p>
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